Another issue I would like to address is the growing population of ESL (english as a second language) and LEP (limited english proficiency) students in schools. There are a lot of questions regarding fair testing, so I'm interested in your opinions, suggestions, etc. Is it fair that these students are expected to be acculturated and learn our English language in order to be tested after 2 years in school? Is it fair for a student who has never been in school be age appropriately placed (i.e. a 7 yr old placed in 2nd grade even if he was never in school)? How do you think we should educate these students? Let's talk!

I don't think that children should be age-appropriately placed, but what other options do we have? During my observation at another school I met two boys who were placed in the fifth grade recently and neither one knew any english. The situation is difficult because it's almost the end of the year and the teacher who got them had no idea what to do with them for the remainder of the year. I think it is unfair to put this type of situation on the teacher right when testing is coming up...but what else can you do? It would be crazy to put them in a kindergarten or first grade classroom obviously because of their age. Plus the ESL teacher at that school didn't know any spanish! I found that fact to be pretty odd.
I also don't believe that ESL students should be expected to learn our language in only 2 years either. I'm sure everyone has taken some foreign language by this point, and we can probably all relate that no one learned near enough in 2 years to speak another language fluently. (Unless you had a really amazing teacher).

I have had minimal experinece with ESL students and teachers, but what experience I have had has been quite discouraging. The ESL teacher that worked at my school was spread so thin over the entire county that she had time for 2 hours a week with our Chinese student. HELLO? Do you think 2 hours is sufficient time? No way!!! I think school sysytems need to consider the number of ESL students in the ENTIRE county and hire the appropriate personnel to work one on one and closely with the students ensuring their progress. It is difficult for a teacher to provide school work that would benefit the student when the student is not recieving proper help and the teacher is not recieving reviews of the student's progress.

I find this a really hard question to answer. It is pretty well documented that students who are fully immersed into the classroom learn the language faster. On the other hand, is it really fair to expect this type of learning to be done by every ESL student? I would have to say no to this question. Each student learns at a different speed and therefore shouldn’t be required to learn the language in two years. The reality of not having enough ESL teachers makes this goal even harder to achieve, even if all were completely qualified. This situation makes it hard on both the teacher and the student, but I think is most unfair to the student.

okay i just told andrew i wasnt going to post anymore today but when i read this thread again, a lightbulb came on. and i have to write it out before it goes away.

i have mixed emotions about esl in the first place. 1) because im going to be an english teacher in high school and 2) because ive been forced to take 4 semesters of spanish up here at app. to teach english! where's the logic in that? well, most argue that i'll need to know spanish to talk to my students who speak spanish as well. but im not going to be an esl teacher. and ideally, by the time the student is in my class, he/she should have enough vocabulary to comprehend! all that sounds good and fine even though i know it doesnt happen that way in real life. and besides, how much conversational spanish am i going to retain in order to speak to spanish-speaking students? um, not much...

and one more point. should students be required to learn the language and then be tested on it in 2 years? well, im really bitter right now so i say yes. i've had to take 2 years of spanish and i'm tested on it like i should be fluent in it. so if i have to go through it to teach english, then they should have to go through it to speak english! oh, and yes, you'd better believe that if you speak spanish but come into my english classroom, youre gonna start learning to speak english. but i dont hold that just to english. i mean, it's a language class, so speaking the language is pretty important. i mean, a spanish-speaking kid could go into a french classroom and would be expected to start learning french.

i mean, i know we should care about students and their feelings and abilities, but sometimes i think we underestimate the abilities of students. we need to push them! what happened to the days of tough love!? i mean, come on. learn a language, take a test, retain the knowledge, and we'll all go home happy!

Testing ESL children is a hugh problem. I tutor a ESL student. He is very smart and can do the work but has problems with the testing. He made level 2 in math and reading. One of his problems stem from the language and experiences. I had a question one day about a baseball field. If I hit 3 homerooms, how many bases will I touch. Hernan had no concept of the question but after I showed him the field and how baseball worked he could answer the question. Is this a fair test to him? The test did not test his knowledge but his culture and experiences.

Ashley i agree with you. I don't think we should expect esl students to learn our language in 2 years either. I can remember how hard it was for me to try to learn just the basic words in spanish. I can't imagine what a child must be thinking when we are forcing information down their throats in such little time.

Adding to Ashley and Kristie's statements I must say that we as Americans didn't learn English in 2 years. It took many more years than that to learn English to the fluency expected in ESL students. I think they eventually need to learn English, but I think it should be done in a realistic amount of time. Until these students learn English there needs to be some type of alternative to school work and testing.

ESL is quite the touchy subject. real fast, though, casey you said you had to go through two years of spanish in order for you to teach english ... if i recall correctly, however, it is the department of arts and sciences that requires you to have 2 years of the foreign language of YOUR CHOICE (ie: chinese, french, heberew ...). so this means you could be and anthro. major or a psych. major or an english major and still need these 2 years. now i'm a spanish ed. major, so of course i feel like learning a foreign language always works towards your advantage. (trust me, when you pass by a spanish speaking person at the gas station and they make a dirty remark at you, i'm very proud to know my espanol and go off on them ... try it sometime, it shocks the crap out of them and they usually apoplogize) but ... ok that's way off topic. i don't think its fair to expect these kids to learn the english language so quickly. i caught on to spanish so much quicker than anything in English, also, i learned half my english grammar through these spanish classes. the school system should really set aside more money in this area. when i was 6 my friend michelle moved here from nicaragua and she didn't know any english. for the first year i'm pretty sure she worked with an esl translator by her side all the time. but from then on, i'm pretty sure she met with her like 3 or 4 times a day and went over what she had learned in class to make sure she understood what was going on and to help with her english. it seemed like it worked really well, and i'm curious as to why they don't do that anymore. maybe they do and i'm just misinformed.

Finally after reading all these I was gald to see a Spanish Major responded. Thank you Kaelyn I agree with you 100%. As a fellow Spanish Ed Major I am also receiving a minro in TESL!!! Yes I understand the problems people have with Foreign students who are going to be in there classroom no matter what grade you teach. Accept it is LIFE!! As a future ESL teacher I do feel that more people need to be certified to teach ESL because we have so many foreign students here now, but not all of them are Spanish. So I feel that when it was said that the ESL teacher didn't know Spanish when trying to help the little girl, well a good ESL teacher doesn't have to know the language because it would be pretty hard to expect one person to know all languages. As Kaelyn also knows not all Spanish is the same there are different dialects just like in English.
As far as the question about learning a language, yes it is possible to learn a language in two years but you HAVE to be totally immersed within the language and culture. For the ESL students that is hard because most parents do not know any English and do not want to learn the language, so therefore the students speak english in school and then their native language when they get home. I studied abroad in Spain last semester and I learned sooo much. Yes Casey you might not think you are learning a lot in your Spanish classes but you really are. You are learning the basics, grammar of the Spanish Language, and if you ever went to a Spanish speakin country and HAD to use what you have learned you would be suprised at what you did retain.
If anyone has more questions I will be glad to answer them or find out the answer for you! I had sooo much to say but my thoughts are getting all gumbled up right now.