How do you guys feel? This was my thought during the video.
I can't fathom killing another individual. I couldn't do it if someone was holding a gun to me and telling me that if i don't do it i'm going to be killed. That was outrageous! i can't believe our military is trained to that sord of thing.
Why would you kill children....or innocent bystanders. i just can't fathom the mindset these people had to be in when doing these things. Those "Americans' are no better than the people/countries that we go in and try to 'fix'. How can we say we are the better nation when part of American population, and the military at that, is going to small villages and killing children and raping women.

The documentary explained to me what I hadn't previously known about that event. I'd seen interviews with the vets but this was the first time that I heard the whole, sickening story.

While I was going to refer to Gayle's question to us at the end, I'm realizing I don't recall it accurately (? Would you post it, by chance?)- so, I'll just comment. It is very, very difficult for me to imagine snapping into a killing frenzy - like those soldiers did. I think that I would have defied the orders as the one soldier did knowing that he would be court-marshaled. His comments about knowing right from wrong and knowing it even if you've just met a stranger who helped clarify ethical issues like that - struck me as so logical. Where do we develop a conscience? The soldiers talked about "following orders" and in their eyes, they were being dutiful soldiers. But, the helicoptor pilot and the interviewer asked, appropriately, "What enemy fire?" Because one soldier talked about his duty in the face of enemy fire... I am haunted - and I am saddened and determined to seek out the best in people, to teach my son the Golden Rule, the stories of Biblical teachings and fables that enable us to know and understand the value of a moral foundation. I love Carl Jung's "Man And His Symbols" and though it isn't directly related to that event, it is a wonderful book to examine and ponder regarding the history of human consciousness.

I felt sorrowful. That is mostly what I felt...

I cant believe that American soliders would go in and kill everyone. You think the army would have done their homework a little better and made 100% sure that there wouldnt be anyone in that village. And once you found people in that village the soliders would act normal as if nothing was wrong doing a routine check or something. Not go in and start raping and killing everyone they see. Those men that raped those poor girls are the kind of guys that make girls think that guys are dogs. Always out to please themself. I personally dont know if i could have shot those people or not. Your suppose to be obientant in the army, you would be just following orders, but im sure in the back of your head you realize what your doing is wrong. I hope i am never faced with that type of situation.

I don't mean to discount anyone's opinion, but there is no way that any of us can decide what would be right and wrong in this situation. You talk about them not "doing their homework" on the situation, or the people that were in the village, but their intelligence agents did investigate that most people were out of the village. I don't imagine that it is easy to trun around troops who are in a battle mind frame. I also think that we are missing the point intirely. This is not about Vietnam or people killing others! This is about children becoming "soldiers" in schools. We miss the deeper meaning of things because we spend too much time discussing the moral judgements of the people. We need to delve into the deeper meanings behind these assignments instead of talking about the surface facts. These soldiers are not the point! Their judgments in war are not the point! The point is that when children enter ur classrooms, it is up to us to make judgement calls on what to teach them in order to develop right from wrong, and to make each student a free thinking individual. Children will believe us, and follow our orders like the soldiers followed orders. If we don'tgive the right ones, what are the consequences. We are lucky that no one will directly die from our commands, but we still have a very profound effect on our students, and should take that responsibility seriuosly as if someone's life was on the line.

As of right now... I can't see myself killing anyone, but you have to put yourself in their shoes. It life or death. Kill or be killed. I hope and pray that i would never do anything like the Nazis or the My Lai incident, but no one can never say that they wouldn't kill because they've never expierenced those events. Plus they are trained to kill and obey orders.

That movie was crazy! But I'm just not sure it was crazier than many other War actions I've learned and heard about. I thought of the muslims that murdered thousands of innocent Americans. How different are they from the American soldiers that murdered the village? Are they worse people than the soldier who came in and put their dreadful actions to a hault. I don't think they are. I believe most of them were probably half whacked b/c of where they were and what they were doing. I imagine you'd be terribly confused, isolated, and vulnerable. It's unbelievable to think of what humans can be capable of when their minds enable them to rationalize the most horrific of acts. I would never justify their actions, and I pray that I could see the truth if ever placed in such a situation. But I cannot say for sure that I could. The American Soldier that ordered them to stop was away from the deal, and probably had an entirely different perspective that the killers. I'm glad I saw the video, because I do believe it's necessary to acknowledge such tragedies in order to learn from them.

I really hate to say it, but I agree with Brian. None of us really knows what ends we would go to in such a situation. Humanity is one of the most fickle things to ever be present on the surface of this planet. We are happy to see solders going off to war to 'defend our personal freedoms.' But then they return and we condemn them for killing people. To solve the problem, either everyone needs to go to war and kill people or there should never be any more wars. I’m sure I’m not the only one who is thinking that this will never happen. So for the rest of time humans are just going to have to get used to that double standard that is shown to solders.

i see the points the all of you guys are making it is very easy to watch the video and say what happened was wrong or on the other hand, justifiable because of the situation of the soldiers hind-sight is definately 20/20, but i think what happened helps us not repeat the past (hopefully) I think Brian made some good points about the decisions we make as teachers that have an effect on our students, but on the other hand i still think that the point of the video lies the eyes of the beholder thus, a discussion forum is to give our opinions and interact about them, not to tell other what is right and wrong

Well, I came in on this thread a little later than I would have liked, so I hope what I have to say might still be relevant. When I was in high school, I was in a class that spent the majority of a semester discussing the Vietnam Conflict, and we went really in depth and looked at it on several different levels. I learned a lot from that class, so I wasn't that surprised at what we saw in the video. However, it still greatly saddened and upset me...even though I'm almost sure I've seen it before. Mi Lai is one of those incidents that shakes my core beliefs. I have always been really angered when I hear about how poorly Vietnam veterans were treated when they came home. Its a real travesty that most of those guys were over there fighting and risking their lives for what they believed was in the best interests of their country, only to have their country shun them in return.
But then, I see something about the Mi Lai Massacre and think, how am I supposed to defend THAT? So it really kind of shakes me. Also, I've never really thought about the similarities between actions of our soldiers in that terrible event, and those of the Nazi's during WWII. That bothered me. But I suppose the way I see it is this...firstly, I should hope that people don't get a bad impression of our nation as a whole, or of our military, over an incident like that. Such things, unfortunate though they are, happen in war...b/c war is a thing of violence and tragedy. It was wrong, but most of those involved were doing what they thought was best. The true fault lies in...well, it lies in the hands of those who issued the orders, even though they knew that it wasn't right...and in the hands of those who were actually raping those girls. Because that is just sick. But the USA as a nation, and the whole of the military, are not to blame.
Also, I would agree that we all have an idea about our character and what we would do in such a position, but no one is really sure until they are there. Which is an uncomfortable thought. We just have to hope we would stand up for what we know to be right and wrong.
Finally, I wanted to say that Brian made good points about comparing the leaders giving the orders to us as teachers, and the soldiers following orders to students. I believe that that is the real lesson to us as teachers. That is the comparison to what we are learning, and I think he said it very well.

Vietnam was not just soldiers killing soldiers. In the Vietnam war young children and women were just as deadly as the vietnamese soldiers themselves. However, the fact that these women and children were not hostile is very disturbing. I really don't know what to think about that video. ( i know I felt horrible about caring about the Duke game so much when there are other more important things in the world to worry about.) All of those soldiers with the exceptioon of one or two were just doing what has been engrained in their heads, follow orders from thier superiors. Chain of command yadi yada. The fact thatr these sol;diers are just like you and me was even more disturbning. i think the shock study has a relationship to this in a way. Just as the shockers in the Milgram studies the soldiers were just doing there jobs, there superiors hold the responsibility for what happened, and they have been sociallized in the ways of the military. What is very scary about this video is that the germans were just like us. Following orders, killing millions of innocent adults and children, because we and them were just following orders. sorry if these thoughts do not make a lot of sense, the movie just blew my mind and I am not really sure what to think about the whole thing. Will one of my "superiors" tell me what I am supposed to think so I do not have to think on my own any more?

well.. i'm not sure what to say about this video. It is sad that it happened, but I can't say I wouldn't have done what all of these men did if I was in their situation. They were trained to kill their enemies which in this case, they were told everyone they seen was an enemy. Just like the children bombing soldiers in Vietnam(I know from a personal acquaitance that kids did this), and In Iraq recently children did this and are still doing it over in the sands, so how were the soldiers to know? Once they did figure out they had no weapons though, none of them should have been killed. That was just RIDICULOUS!!!! I wish we didnt' conform to commands so easily, well at least sometimes I think that.

Many things fall under the auspices of National Security, and at first Mi Lai was an event that fell under protection from disclosure due National Security. It was only after independent investigators caught wind of this information that the whole story was brought to light. Did the commanding officer get the punishment he deserved for this massacre? Read the transcrpits of his court martial trial and find out. It is very interesting reading. Do a search for these transcripts on the web or try this link: http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/project ... /mylai.htm
Even more disturbing are the efforts made to cover up this incident by the Military and the CIA. Similar situations of cover up by the CIA and the Military Industrial Complex occured a few weeks before John F. Kennedy's assassination when the CIA conspired with factions of the ARVN (the armed forces of the gov't of South Vietnam) in 1963 when the President of South Vietnam, Ngho Dinh Diem, was assassinated. Only later through the Freedom of Information Act have documents come to light showing the CIA's involvement in this Coup d'etat. Things like this happen, and for this domocracy to survive the HAVE to be exposed and made public.

"Is a government worth preserving that lies to its people?"-former New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison commenting on his investigation of the Kennedy Assassination-1967


2-11-04

I know this movie was about the army and not the marines, however the motto of the marines is Semper Fidelis. This means Do or Die. Their war cry is Kill Kill Kill Die Die Die. Alot of times this is the way it is in our schools... DO the work the way I tell you to do it and when I tell you to do it OR DIE by taking the F or 0 or detention. This is what I think is wrong with the schools of our youth. We as educators need to use multiple philosophies, and techniques, and grading procedures for our students so that we develop a Truely educated individual who can make their own decisions.

I also can not imagine killing another human being, but no one really knows what they will do until they are put in that position. I also agree with the thought that intervention is needed when children are being schooled not to learn academics, but to kill. In another class I had we also studied about Mai Lai. Our discussions centered on "Can someone kill and be have like this and still lead a normal(everyday) life?" In this class we learned that Lt. William Calley that lead the Charlie Company was pardoned by Nixon and lives in Georgia and seems to lead a normal life.

During the video, I found many parts that I had to turn my head or cover my eyes too. I never knew what had really happened during Vietnam (Charlie One Troop) -- I felt ashamed to have individuals like the troop representing the United States of America. I could not even imagine losing my family for no reason at all! These men have to live with what they did to those innocent human beings for the rest of their life. Did anyone pay attention to how many pills bottles sat in front of the African-American Solider who showed us his album that contained pictures and newspaper clippings of the horrible tragedy? He was so traumatized because of what he did he had to be on pills for the rest of his life -- sad, ugh?