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 Objectivity, Objectivity, Poisonwood Bible 
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Hi Everyone:

I am back, but with the serious stuff. The pragmatist sees truth as what is good for us to believe. They also believe that the person who views truth (objectivity) in philosophy would "see truth as something to be bridged by isolating a natural and transcultural sort of rationality which can be used to criticize certain cultures and praise others". In the Poisonwood Bible, Nathan, I do believe, has good intentions about his work in Africa, but he does not really provide help, in that his understanding of help was to change the culture of an entire group of people, based on his truth, and what worked in Georgia. Two examples are in his sermon about nakedness, and the way he saw truth in how to plant a garden. His view of what would help these people was what worked, or what was deemed as help in the American Culture, or based on one's religious beliefs. My mother and I have often been at odds as to what "help" is. She says, when a person is sick, "help" is going into someone's home and cleaning their house as you would your own, washing their clothes, etc. That is without asking them what the need is. I said to her, but mother what if there is a need (to them) that's more pressing than a clean house like yours(her definition of clean, and it is spotless). She says, "If they are sick, then a clean house and clean clothes will make them feel better." My thing was, what if bleach and other stong cleaners make them more sick because of the smell. Of course, to no avail does she hear what I am saying. She says, Cleanliness is next to Godliness. I believe it most certainly can be, but what is the "truth" about what "help" really is. At any rate, that argument between Mom and I will continue.
Nathan had a plan to, but without consulting those who the plan was intended for. It is difficult to make a plan for a targeted group without consulting the targeted group. With Nathan, there are some things he needed to know about "their story" before he could act. With the knowledge of the African culture, an open mind, and a desire to help (where it was truly needed, (by asking) would have helped he and his family to be more productive. If it was the Gospel he wanted them to hear, then that should have been his focus. If they heard and understood, then they needed the freedom to ask him for more information as to how this Gospel could help their lives. Sometimes, living what you say will be a more effective tool. He should have been asking them how to plant a garden, and what he should have done his research as to what plants, vegetables would thrive there. The whole thing was it was not Georgia. I guess Nathan was a person who had the notion of God's-eye point of view, but I guess he forgot God made the Africans too, and he placed them in that part of the world and they lived according to who God made them to be. He was as the reading on page 27 "we can only hope to produce a more rational conception of rationality or a better conception of morailty if we operate from within our traditon. He was operating out of "what worked for him within his culture". So, how do we as teachers remember that we,too, want to help, but is it help if the other person is not considered in the process of help, since two people are involved with two different stories. We must then learn to listen to the stories of others, or we may end up like Nathan broken out in a rash, frustrated, and not know why?(smile) Just food for thought. I will continue later today. See ya!

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Sheila Beverly


Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:30 am
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Shelia, You made a lot of interesting points. One thing I'll say is that you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. Nathan was bound and determined to "help" the Africans, but in their eyes, they didn't need his kind of help. As you said about your argument with your mother - if someone is in need of a bowl of chicken soup and all you do is scrub their toilet, did you really help them? :roll:

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Amy Smith ("Tanner and Deuce's mom")


Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:40 pm
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Very interesting. Especially how you connected it to Nathan and the people of Africa. I agree he was very determined to help the people of Africa find the Lord and be baptized in the river no matter what. However, that's not what the people really needed. What they needed was food, medical supplies, etc., not a stubborn man telling them what they were doing wrong.
Personally if I went to a church that was lead by a preacher like Nathan Price, I think I would turn around and walk right out the front door.
Sheila I think your Mom is like so many other people when it comes to knowing what's best for people, however like you said they might not always be right.

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Laura Southard


Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:33 pm
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Sheila - great comments. And something Amy and Laura said in their posts below made me think of something that didn't dawn on me when we discussed Poisonwood last night, that is helping tend to the physical/emotional needs, (food, water, medical) before you even begin to worry about the spiritual side. This could probably apply in an educational sense as well; that is tending to those basic needs that are most pressing and build a trust or connection. In Poisonwood, there was never a connection that was made between Nathan and the people. Had he seen them first as humans, capable of the same feelings as Americans - love, sadness, suffering, wisdom, and a knowledge of how to scrape and survive within the constraints of their environment - he could've been able to make a connection with them.

They are not worried about spiritually changing, they are worried about finding enough food to sustain them through a drought. Sustain the belly and help the physical side first, and then minister to the soul. (Samaritan's Purse - the Christian relief organization in Boone, believes you must tend to the physical before you can begin to tend to the spirit).
Maybe its the same with education. Tapping into the "story" and background of a child's life, considering what's happening behind the scenes of their homelife, culture, all things considered. Maybe the story is different and before they can truly be reached by us, we must listen to their story and allow ourselves to get to know who and what shapes them.


Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:41 am
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Tending to the physical needs of students first, before tending to their academic needs, is a concept that I think our public schools understand. That is why a large majority of our schools have successful free breakfast and lunch programs. Organizations such as soup kitchens, the Salvation Army, and other groups also tend to the physical needs before they tend to emotional, spiritual, and psychological issues. Likewise, didn't Jesus use this same principle when he fed the 5, 000 with the loaves and fish before preaching to them? (This is kind of like Orleanna's chicken dinner by the river!)

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Betsy Rosenbalm


Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:33 pm
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