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Eric Riggs
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 33 Location: Surry County
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I realize money is not the only topic. It is a major issue to be sure. What do you think would be the best way to reallocate funds? Where should they come from? This issue of funding has been brought up in more than one court case. The first one that comes to mind is Serrano v. Priest (1971 & 1976). This case resulted in reallocating funds from poorer districts to richer ones. The per pupil spendage was within $350.00 across the state in the late 90's. The case also created a spending cap for richer districts. What do you feel would be the best way to help the problem with the least resentment or resistance from parents?
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:07 pm |
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Chris Sardler
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 36
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Eric,
In some way or another it always comes down to money. Leandro in certainly about money and is probably the most current case that the nation is watching. Judge Manning's interpretation of the NC Constitution points to the fact that the state must provide for a sound basic education and must provide the funds to meet this premise. In NC the legistator can raise taxes, pass a state bond referendum for schools, initiate a lottery, increase the court fees that will go to schools, petition the federal government or reduce spending (most of which is in salaries). Is there one you think is most appealing?
Chris
_________________ Chris Sardler
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Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:57 pm |
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John Parsons
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 30
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Eric,
The legislature must follow Judge Manning's lead and pass legislation that make spending equitable across the state. The students in Hoke county and other impoverished counties should not have to suffer with an inferior education simply because they don't have the funds to compete with more affluent counties. This inequality has already been litigated in Brown v. Board of Ed. The country realized that minority students should not be denied equal opportunity. It doesn't always matter what the parents think, it is a matter of what's fair.
_________________ John Parsons
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Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:53 pm |
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Andy Palmer
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 30
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Chris
You mentioned something about a lottery. Is there any serious consideration being given to creating a lottery in North Carolina? The real question is, if the state creates a lottery system, how can we be sure that the money is being spent in the education field? I know from experience in Ohio that very little of the money the lottery brings in trickles down to the school systems.
_________________ Andy Palmer
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Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:00 pm |
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Sandra Burchette
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:41 pm Posts: 36 Location: North Wilkesboro Elementary School
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Andy,
From all indications NC will soon be getting a lottery. I heard several Republican and Democrat legislators on tv talking about this. The Republicans seem to be finally willing to let it go before the people for a vote and the Democrats think it will pass with about a 60% approval. If NC will use the lottery like GA then it will be good for education. In GA, if my understanding is correct, as long as high school students maintain a certain GPA, then their in-state college tuition is paid. There may be other benefits and/or downfalls in GA, but this is the big thing I keep hearing. I want to find out more, but the GA lottery system doesn't sound too bad.
_________________ Sandra Burchette
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Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:10 pm |
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brent long
Semi-pro
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 28
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sandra, your assumption is correct on the GA lottery. I really think this type of use for a lottery can benefit NC. However, will the legislation that pass a lottery view it the same. Maybe the state should quit spending so much money on testing and then we would have enough to go around to all counties.
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Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:44 pm |
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Andy Palmer
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 30
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Sandra and Brent
I don't see how we could not have a lottery system in North Carolina if they are prepared to even offer anything close to what GA has. Moral obligations aside, we need more money in education, I hope the lottery can pass through legislation and become a reality. What do you guys think about the moral side of this issue?
_________________ Andy Palmer
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Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:38 pm |
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Chris Sardler
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 36
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Andy,
I live on the NC VA border. I see cars come up Interstate 77 from Charlotte with bags of money to buy lottery tickets. Cana, VA has had the best record in the state of VA for payoffs. Cana is the first town you come to in VA when leaving NC from Mt. Airy. See this I would have to say I would like to see the money stay in NC. I did a little research on lotteries in FL, GA, and VA. The major difference in GA and the others is it was legislated that lottery income for schools cannot surplant exiting buget allocations. That is what makes the difference. In other states as the lottery dollars increase the budgeted amounts for schools decrease. This results in a no gain for education.
As far as the morality of the lottery, that is a more difficult question. The 2004 Report of the South, Fifty Years after Brown vs Board has a quote on the cover, "The road out of poverty runs by the school house." If we do not put money in schools is there another way?
_________________ Chris Sardler
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Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:11 am |
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Sandra Burchette
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:41 pm Posts: 36 Location: North Wilkesboro Elementary School
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Andy-
This is my personal opinion concerning the moral issue of a lottery. Playing the lottery for me does not come before tithes, missions, or bills. As long as I pay my tithes and missions at church and keep my bills paid, I do not have a problem with playing the lottery. In fact, I do go to VA to buy lottery tickets and know many other people who do the same. I see it as a form of recreation. So many people in NC cross state lines to play that I feel we need to be keeping that money in-state. I do think the money should be used for education, specifically to send students to college. Why should we keep sending our money out-of-state?
_________________ Sandra Burchette
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Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:33 pm |
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Andy Palmer
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 30
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Sandra and Chris
You both bring up a great point about people crossing the state line to play the lottery in VA. There is no reason that money should be going to other states when students in NC are not getting the supplies they need. I am glad you informed me about this little across the line gambling issue we have here in this fine state. I just didn’t know! What other little secrets are you aware of? Sandra, I am with you when it comes to playing responsible.
_________________ Andy Palmer
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:22 pm |
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Val Myers
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:41 pm Posts: 36
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Hi Guys,
I hope we do get a lottery, then I won't have to keep spending money in VA. I agree that if NC had a lottery program like GA we could see a possible closing of the spending gap in some districts. Higher education should be a top priority, but I do believe that entering school with exposure to previous educational experiences provides a better playing field for the disadvantaged student.. Maybe we will see the results of early childhood education as it impacts on EOG's. There is already a large amount of research that shows the importance of building the skills while the children are young.
_________________ Val Myers
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:59 pm |
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Phil Thompson
Semi-pro
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 19 Location: Statesville, NC
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I agree that a lottery can be a great benefit for NC's education system. But, before we jump on the lottery bandwagon, it is important the we learn from the misfortunes of other states and ensure provisions are in place to prevent the current educational budget from decreasing from it's present levels. The lottery should not be seen as way to fund other programs by redirecting current budgeted dollars.
I also believe that before we start looking at giving state college education away, we should make certain that all the needs of children in schools (K-12) all across the state have what they need to succeed. By this I mean smaller classes, new schools to the ones that crumbling around them, updated technology, etc. And, this should equitably distributed to all schools regardless of social-economic status.
Of course, I believe educators salaries should be improved so that they are comenserate (SP?) with those in the private sector requireing the same type of qualifications.
Ok........I was told by a teacher from CMS that if I put (A-Z) on whatever I was writing it would cover all my misspelled words. So here it is A -Z
_________________ Phil Thompson
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Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:57 pm |
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Eric Riggs
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 33 Location: Surry County
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The lottery in Virginia has helped enought to have some schools shut down due to lack of funding. Georgia set up ther system correctly. As it is stated in the law that Zel Miller helped get passed, the lottery is in additon to the funds already in place for education. I did reasearch on Georgia's lottery for a Finance class. Other states such as VA and FL have not been so successfull. The only way the educational organizations such as the state school board are going to get behind it is if the language states the monies gained go to specific funds such as capital outlay. What is also intersting is that for the first three to four years the lottery earns hugs amounts of revenue. After which it tends to drop off.
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Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:49 pm |
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Eric Riggs
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 33 Location: Surry County
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Another thought is that of moral obligations. We can not put those aside. The funds that cause those jackpot numbers to be so high disproportionately come from citizens who do not have income to lose. We will cause more problems with a lottery. Speaking of morals, I personally am against the lottery due to the fact it is gambling. It is not being a good steward with the money you have been entrusted with. We may help our educational system in the short term, but damage society in the long term. I realize this is not popular in the educational community, but this is how I feel.
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Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:56 pm |
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kristine kelley
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:41 pm Posts: 40 Location: Wilkes Central High School
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Eric,
Those people you are trying to protect will spend their money as they see fit anyway even if you feel a moral obligation to protect it for them. They will go to VA or SC to buy lottery tickets, or spend it on alcohol or something. I think it would be a good idea to compare the revenue from lotteries to the actual "trickle down" in SC to see if the lottery system could be beneficial to the school systems in NC.
_________________ Kristine Kelley
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Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:30 am |
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Sandra Burchette
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:41 pm Posts: 36 Location: North Wilkesboro Elementary School
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I agree with Kristine. People will spend their money on what they want to whether or not I think it is a good idea.
_________________ Sandra Burchette
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Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:56 pm |
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Sharon Shoupe
All-star
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:40 pm Posts: 30 Location: Roaring River Elementary
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Andy,
I'm afraid even if we did have a lottery in NC and they said it would be used toward education, it would never happen. I talked with someone in Virginia about their lottery. They implied they never saw the benefits in education. I wonder how it would be. You asked about morally how people feel. My Baptist background steers me against a lottery. It seems like gambling to me. I believe people could become addicted and end up in the poor house. I really haven't done enough research on it.
_________________ Sharon Shoupe
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:12 am |
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