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 Who's really in the cage? 
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Ismael brings up a philosophical question that I struggle with everyday. Why do I do what I do? What is my motivation? It sounds simple but it is that motivation that gets me up every morning? I am a captive of the "god" culture that we live in. I struggle to fulfill this insatiable desire I have to accumulate and acquire "things." Things that might make me feel like my life is worth living. I am constantly examining my life to determine if I am doing something that would please God. But at the same time, I am a captive of the "god culture" I live in. I want, for some reason, for people to recognize my success. I want to respected by my peers here on this Earth. In spite of my constant praying to God, I still can't cut myself lose from the bondage of this Earth. I am a captive of material wants and desires that have nothing to do with being a good human being. I am a taker. I look at the Earth as something that is here exclusively for me. Who's really in the cage? I am because I can't escape my own humanity.

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John Parsons


Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:00 am
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By escaping the world of Takers you would become a Leaver which brings about doubt and confusion. Even in the book, that question was asked. Ishmael brought up the situation of the man who was homeless, out of work, no skills, a wife, and kids. The man had no hope, future or any where to turn. He could press a button and have it made. Yet, he had doubt about pressing the button. Ishmael asked "Why" and he responded because you live like animals. In our society we have people who try to get out of the bondage of Takers. These are the same people who are looked at as if the are odd and don't fit by those of use who do "fit' into the takers way of life.

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Kathy Wagoner


Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:29 pm
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Ishmael refers to " an axiom stating that there is no way to obtain certain knowledge about how people ought to live." We live as we have been taught to live. We follow our culture's dictates. If we don't we won't "fit in." We live in society's invisible cage. Occassionally we wish for the courage to break free. I have new neighbors and they are a bit louder than my family. My husband finds them annoying. I explained to him that their cultural (Hispanic) background is different than ours and they don't adhere to "our" expectations. Not wrong...just different. Sometimes I would like to be loud and vibrant too.

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Kristine Kelley


Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:51 pm
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Jon, guilt is not Godly! As Christians we do strive not to want things of the world, but guilt is not the way to go. God gives us an out through salvation and a cleansing of spirit through repentance. Ishmael wants to say things are all black and white, you are either a Taker or a Leaver! I see the metaphor, but I don't agree. We all fall sometimes on one side or the other.

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out the door and running...

oh by the way, this is ben!


Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:12 am
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I think the Takers and Leavers can be applied to many groups of people:
Rich and Poor
Have and Have Nots
Whites and Non-Whites
Non-disabled and Disabled
The list could go on and on. If you are a taker, then this book pushes you to examine yourself on many levels.

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Shawn Clemons
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Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:23 pm
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Humans are complex beings with very little in our lives as absolutes. The grey area exsist for people. There are people who are in the extreme range of takers and leavers, but aren't most people a mixture of both?Yes, we can be caged by our own limitations, but we can also be freed by our attainments through spirit and our knowledge of the interconnectedness of life.

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Val Myers


Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:12 am
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John,
I feel we do not fall into one category or the other. That seems to be the common theme. What I want to interject is that I realize I have a sinful nature. This "cage" that is mentioned is real. Our society would like to hold us within the bars. No matter what limitations, desires, etc. all can be resolved through spitiual means. One of the things I realize is that I am going to do wrong. I will make mistakes. But the beauty in all that is that I believe that I can not earn my way into God's favor. He knows I will fall. Like any mistake I should learn and move on.


Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:12 pm
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