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 Ishmael; for or against 
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I may have a hard time putting this into words, but bear with me. What was Ishmael's view about the Takers and the Leavers? Was he more in favor of the Takers view or the Leavers, and what was his view on religion? I understood what both the Takers and the Leavers role was in history, but it was unclear who Ishmael seemed to side with. I too, like Regina, didn't feel the connection to religion and God as I had expected to after the beginning of the book. I almost felt as if Ishmael and his student felt religion and faith to be naive. Did anyone else have that thought? I do think the book was stimulating, in that it really made you think and make connections as you were reading. I think that this is what Dr. Turner was pinpointing when she said that this class was much more than just opinion. That we took a class like this to make us think outside our box, so to speak. I can appreciate that and this book, but for some reason I felt disappointed when I completed it. Not only did I want Ishmael to live and help the man change the world, but I think I wanted some type of inspiration from the book, and I just didn't receive it. :?


Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:46 pm
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Eron, I was confused myself. At first, I felt that he thought anyone who had to look to the gods as someone who was bad. The Takers, I think, were the ones Ishmael mentioned who had to have prophets tell them how to live. Then, he talked of how the Takers didn't need gods, that they took it upon themselves to have enough food and live. The Leavers at the end of the book seemed to be the way everyone should be-they let the gods provide for them.
I DON'T KNOW!! I hope this is discussed in class so that I can make heads or tails of it. Right now, I don't get it!!
I do understand that we need to take care of the EARTH and not be so wasteful. We need to show people that they need to change their ways and start replinishing the resources that are gone. But then again, I could be way off!!

DANA :?


Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:30 pm
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I think Ishmael was in favor of the Leavers. It connected to religion (I think) by looking at the Fall of Adam from a different perspective. The murder of Abel is story of our agricultural revolution(takers) vs. herders(leavers)??? I think I get it but when I put it into words I'm not so sure.


Mon Mar 24, 2003 9:30 pm
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I agree with Erica, I think Ismael probably would have leaned toward the Leavers side. I think Ishmael said that only Human Beings were Takers.
I also got the impression that Ishmael belived in "the " gods, but did not subscribe much to oraganized religion. It seems as Religion became more organized, you started to see more splits in the main trunk or theological view. This seemed to cause competition between the different views. Competition in this story also seems to be a negative characteristic, as in the other books we have read.
As a Leaver, you have to leave it in the hands of the Gods to take care of the "living community". As a Taker, you take your life out of the hands of the Gods.
Does that make sense to anyone else, or am I way off base?


Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:53 pm
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Dawn, I like how you put that! I agree with what you are saying!

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Wed Mar 26, 2003 3:06 pm
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Dawn- makes sense to me! well put

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Wed Mar 26, 2003 3:32 pm
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Dawn, You're explanation made good sense to me.


Sat Mar 29, 2003 5:30 pm
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Wow. Yes, that makes sense. Thanks. I am struggling with this one.

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Sun Mar 30, 2003 10:18 am
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Thanks Eron for asking the question. Dawn, your explanation is great. I think I understand this book a little better now.

Kim :)


Mon Mar 31, 2003 7:50 am
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