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Amy Scronce
All-star
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:29 pm Posts: 47
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I ventured into a conversation the other day with my administrator about all the new requirements for the upcoming freshman class and the issue of all students having to pass EOCs to graduate. Of course the conversation went to the political side, but we also started talking about education being BUSINESS driven. What industries want and will gain by playing a role in education. I know that in Catawba County, we have the research, Other Ways to Win, that focuses on students receiving less than a 4 year degree and becoming very successful in the industry level. Does anyone else have any thoughts on how businesses drive different educational movements?
_________________ Amy Scronce
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Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:42 pm |
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Tim Hoffman
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:37 pm Posts: 51
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Amy,
I understand why business are trying to engage students in options outside of college. We must admit that not every person is and will go to college. Instead of treating these individuals as failures in society we should encourage them to pursue other options. We must contiune to generate and encourage blue collar workers. There is no shame in fixing a car or becoming a plumber. We are encouraging our lower class to fill these jobs and must be considering individuals that just dont want to go to college and train them in a skill.
_________________ Tim Hoffman
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Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:07 pm |
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John Robinson
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:29 pm Posts: 125
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I personally think businesses should butt out of education. Well, not entirely. As educators though, we need to be cautious about including them in the conversation. You have to remember that a business exists to make money. It does not always have the best interest of the children in mind. To give you an example right here in Catawba County, I remember during my first three years of teaching companies like Commscope, Alcatel, and Siecorp (which is now defunct) preaching about what students need to know and be able to do. They declared loudly that students need these skills or those skills. We as educators bought it entirely. Fast forward ten years later. These companies were laying people off left and right, probably the same graduates we tried to provide their prescribed skills. We can ask business to contribute, but I no longer buy every thing they say. Businesses are often living in the short term, ten to twenty years, looking to make money. We, as educators are looking at people's lives. We need to look even broader than business. Instead of providing skills a company says our students need, we may need to create graduates who can adapt quickly and learn and relearn quickly for the rest of their lives. We owe students more than making them robots for the local business community. These businesses may not last.
_________________ "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." M. Twain
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Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:01 pm |
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Heath Belcher
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:28 pm Posts: 43
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Business as a passenger.... absolutely. Business as a driver..... no thanks. Whenever I get with some of my old friends for a "road trip", I let whoever knows where we're going and how to get there drive. I'll happily ride along and help pay for gas, read the map, and even suggest where to stop for lunch. But I let the experts "drive the car". Let the educators drive the car and business come along for the ride.
John is exactly right; as noble and justified as Bill Gates may be in his claims to 21st Century education..... he is equally interested in seeing Windows based PCs all over every classroom across America. I wonder if he has the same passion for Apple's role in the 21st Century Classroom?
_________________ Heath Belcher
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Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:17 pm |
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Jackie Shaw
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:31 pm Posts: 68
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I too think business has done education an injustice. They continue to cultivate an environment where people see money as the main factor for getting an education rather learning for the sake of learning. Just look at the salaries a person can earn at an entry level position with a two year associate's degree instead of a four year degree. At the same time, college graduates are in the unemployment lines-unless they are teachers of course.
_________________ Jackie Shaw
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Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:36 pm |
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John Robinson
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:29 pm Posts: 125
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I think the numbers of college graduates in the unemployment line is an indication of the value of a college education, sometimes. Business does not know what kind of graduates it needs. Think about GE's big push into education and how business says that want graduates who can work together and problem-solve, graduates who can think, read, etc. If this is so then why are these companies moving to third world countries where the literacy rate is worse, and where workers have even less education? What business really wants is CHEAP WORKERS. Why else relocate to other countries? Let's face it. We lose jobs because the workers in the same jobs in our country would demand better wages. Perhaps we should teach students to be content in their circumstances and never aspire to anything greater!
_________________ "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." M. Twain
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Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:29 pm |
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Logan McGuire
All-star
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:30 pm Posts: 32
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I think you're all making wonderful points; I can identify most with Heath's roadtrip analogy. Without funding assistance from businesses, many schools and districts would not be able to do some of the terrific things they do for children, but when it comes to who's in charge in education, it should be the educators.
The problem is that so many business leaders in places like Washington and Raleigh have been trying to create a system where education is operated like a business. Don't get me wrong; I think these people (in most cases) really want to do the right thing, and many of them have very successful track records as leaders in the business world. The problem comes when you try to operate a school with the financial (or test-score-based) bottom line, rather than the students' true success, as the ultimate driving force.
In a factory, if a company gets a "faulty" shipment of parts, they would reorder. This cannot be done with students in a school setting; the parents are sending us the best children they have, and we are obligated to teach them all and to ensure that all of them have a chance for success. When NCLB mandates that they all must be proficient by a certain date with no exceptions, this just shows how myopic some of our business-leaders-turned-politicians can be with regard to education.
_________________ Logan McGuire
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Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:19 pm |
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Amy Hord
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:29 pm Posts: 32
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Tim,
I so agree with you about the fact that not everyone will go to college. I have so much respect for those people who know that they are not suited for college but develop a skill so that they can perform a trade such as plumbing, mechanics, etc. I think that public education should provide more opportunities that support this mentality. Instead, we set these students up for failure.
_________________ Amy Hord
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Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:18 pm |
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Jeremiah McCluney
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:28 pm Posts: 43
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As educators we need to prepare students for careers. I do not believe in learning for the sake of self enrichment only. It is nice but not the only reason for learning. Education is not a process with a product. Education is about learning a skill, applying it, and then going back for more. We have to educate for a life time of learning. This is a cultural shift and a difficult one for many older Americans who see school as something you go through once and move on.
A education is also about teaching someone to learn. Most employers train on the job but they need literate, motivated, and people with the skills to learn.
_________________ Jeremiah McCluney
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Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:17 am |
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Leigh Anne Frye
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:28 pm Posts: 44
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I don't agree that education is to simply prepare students for careers. I firmly believe we educate to produce responsible citizens that contribute to society. There are many ways to contribute, as careers being one of those outlets.
I do understand the direction high schools are going, with choosing career pathways as 8th graders. But, it seems like we overwhelm our students enough, much less ask them to plan their life goals at age 13/14. Though these ideas/plans can change within the first year or so, college tech prep kids get locked to a pathway by their Junior year...so much for changing your mind.
_________________ Leigh Anne Frye
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Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:31 am |
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Kami McKay
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:28 pm Posts: 38
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Amy, I think that all of the highschool reform talk coming down the pipes is focusing on what our "businesses" want in their future employees and how schools can change to meet their growing demands.
_________________ Kami McKay
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Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:11 pm |
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Lisa Fortenberry
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:29 pm Posts: 34 Location: Freedom & Patton High School
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Another thought - Academies!
With "freshmen academies" gaining so much attention and being successful, the newest push is sophomore academies, CTP academies, ... For example, within one high school there could be:
Freshmen Academy
Business Academy
University Academy
Health Sciences Academy
etc.
Based on the course of study and pathway chosen, that would determine which academy the study was in starting in the 10th grade. High schools in the same county would each have different academies and students would choose which high school to attend based in the academy they are most interested in. Several schools around the country are experimenting with the multiple academies concept, therefore it will be in NC before it is throughly thought out.
_________________ Lisa Fortenberry
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Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:11 pm |
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John Robinson
All-star
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:29 pm Posts: 125
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Lisa, I think that is tracking just called something else. Educators seem to have an excellent ability of repackaging something, giving it a new name. Of course the academy idea is probably on paper more like a voluntary tracking system. At least it will start out that way.
As for focusing what businesses want in graduates, I think that is a mistake. We can consider their needs of course, but we should be preparing students for the broader task of being able to cope in a world where they will probably be laid off several times by the companies they work for. They need to have the resonance of being able to retrain and regroup in order to be successful.
_________________ "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." M. Twain
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Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:22 pm |
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