Social and Philosophical Foundations of Education

Send 'em over the boarder
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Author:  Lianna Beard [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Send 'em over the boarder

While we are discussing differences in cultures, dialects, stereotypes, and injustice, I think we should consider people who are Hispanic.

There is so much to say. First of all, I have discovered that if someone appears Hispanic often we United States citizens assume they are from Mexico. In actuality there are many Hispanics, who are from other nations, residing within the US. Many of the individuals who I have met, that are non-Mexicans, are often offended when people around them assume that they are Mexican. We often assume things by the color of peoples' skin, and something as simple as misinterpreting some ones nationality can be offensive. My friends, who are Hispanic, think that there is a stigmatism that comes with being Mexican. They do not want individuals or groups of people to assume they are "illegal aliens" who are here to "take our jobs."

Many United States citizens believe that illegal aliens (Mexicans) that are in the United States should be thrown back into their own country. If you are a United States citizen, I do believe you have a right to think that people who are here illegally should be sent back to where they came from. However, I am not sure that I agree with this. As future teachers we need to be aware of what we believe, but not allow that to cause us to be biased against our “Hispanic students.â€

Author:  zach yokley [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  What to do?

This is a difficult thing to think about because if someone is here illegally then they have broke the law. That is not a judgment, just a statement of fact. However, we are a nation of immigrants and who are we to deny the American dream to these people. I don't know what else to say because this is such a difficult question, but I do believe that every individual regardless of nationality or creed should have a shot at achieving their dreams.

Author:  Clay Moore [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:04 pm ]
Post subject: 

Illegal immigrants are living here illegally. Thats breaking the law plain and simple.
Lianna you said something to the extent of we have the right to think illegal aliens should be sent back to where they came from but you don't agree with this. Is there any particular reason why you don't think living here illegally isn't wrong? Maybe I just misunderstood that statement.
I am all for American citizenship to whoever, especially Mexicans. Honestly I feel like Hispanics work hard and are willing to do most jobs that other Americans wouldn't do so them taking our jobs is not the issue. I just feel like as a citizen of this country I pay taxes and have other obligations whereas someone who is living here illegally receives the benefits of living in this land of freedom but does not have to contribute in ways as others do.

Author:  Cory Rycroft [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:13 pm ]
Post subject: 

The laws in our country are there for a reason. In most cases laws are there to protect us, the US citizen. If immigrants are living here illegally then they are breaking the law, plain and simple. Immigration laws are to protect us and keep our country safe. Immigrants who come into this country illegally could be a danger threat. There are right ways to do things are there are wrong ways. If an Hispanic person jumps the border and comes into our country then they are in the wrong.

Author:  Lloyd Walker [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

Well said Clay. I agree that living in the United States illegally is breaking the law no matter what country you came from. I also agree with you on the issue of benefits. I do not believe illegal aliens should just be deported, especially if they have established work histories, are long terms residents in the United States and are not violent criminals. However I do want them in the social security system and the income tax system. I also agree that most are hard working and honest and we benefit greatly from their presence. I think obtaining citizenship should be a priority for anyone who wants to remain in the United States. This is part of being a productive member of society.

Author:  Lianna Beard [ Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  consider

While I appreciate all of the above responses, I find it interesting what part of the original post that everyone chose to respond to. No one chose to respond to how they would treat their students because of their beliefs.
No one focused on the Hispanic stereotype either.

Question: Just because something is a law, does it mean that it is right or perfect?

I wonder if any of you have ever experienced the process of trying to become a citizen of a country, especially this country. I would challenge you to consider how difficult it is to become a citizen of the United States of America. Research it and look up all the requirements. It is easy to say someone should do something if you have never been in their shoes.
I'm not saying we should make all illegal immigrants legal, but I am asking you to consider the difficulties these individuals face.
Have you been so poor and at your ropes end that you have crossed a countries boarder with the risk of being killed? I doubt any of you have ever been so desperate. Consider leaving all of your family and friends to try to survive, at the least.

I wonder, why do we feel so entitled? We just happened to be born in a country. Why do we feel like it belongs to us and us alone? What right do we have to say that no other man can belong to this land? Sometimes I wish all the world could live together in cooperation and peace, but due to our feelings of entitlement, I doubt it will ever happen.

Author:  Carrie Barlowe [ Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:02 pm ]
Post subject: 

Lianna you made an excellent point when you said, “I believe that the unknown can lead to ignorance, ignorance can lead to fear, and fear can lead to hate. Let's not hate each other because of our ignorance.â€

Author:  Mandi McGaha [ Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:17 pm ]
Post subject: 

I think as teachers we should not care where our students are from, if they are legal or not, in our classroom they are our responsibility. But, as a citizen of this country, and as a tax payer, I do not think that illegal immigrants should get to stay here. Yes, it is very difficult to become a citizen, I know this. I myself have an uncle that came to this country illegally, speaking no English when he got here. I have seen him work very hard over the years, become a citizen, a taxpayer, and a productive part of society. I have seen the process be successful in him, and I think that it is like anything else--having to work hard for citizenship should tell you it's worth it. Look at all the possibilities that open up to people who become citizens. I think it's great that people think our country is so promising that they would sneak in illegally, but I think that if they want to become part of that greatness, they need to become citizens.

Author:  Clay Moore [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:51 am ]
Post subject: 

I'm sorry for not responding to all parts of your post lianna. I do think that as teachers we don't need to let our beliefs affect how we treat our students. In the classroom all students should be treated equally and given the same amount of opportunity as others. I definitely agree that within the school setting any and all students should be treated the same and I'm sure everyone agrees with that.
However, the reason I posted about the illegal immigrant part is because it struck me as being the controversial issue in your post. I am well aware of how long the process is and how much work goes into becoming a US citizen. Just because it takes effort and time to become a citizen doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. With this state of mind why not have all those in foreign countries come over to live in the US and enjoy our country. This just don't make sense to me. The more illegal immigrants we have equals more taxes for the citizens.
Once again I'm all for building our nation with diversity as long as everyone is a citizen. I would love to live in a place where we all could be the same and everything be peaceful and we cooperate with one another but unfortunately we live in a place where money talks.. and when I'm having to give up my money that I have worked hard for so illegal immigrants can live here I can't agree with you totally on this issue.

Author:  gayle [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:54 pm ]
Post subject: 

Clay, it's possible you may not know how long it takes to come to the US legally, or how long the wait is to become a US citizen. It's actually extraordinarily complex. I am not sure of wait times or requirements at this moment. However, in general, most who apply for a work visa will simply NEVER get one, the wait list is too long, or it is closed, or... and the possibilities go on endlessly.

There is also that part of US history, beginning around 1836, in which a huge swath of northern Mexico became the western and southwestern United States, in contravention of the treaty the US signed with Mexico which allowed US citizens to live and work in that part of Mexico. Mexican citizens generally feel rather differently about their northern border than do we US citizens about our southern border. I'm offering this not as a justification of illegal immigration, but as a complicating factor about which people in the US are often unaware.

Author:  Kristen P. Helton [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:22 pm ]
Post subject: 

I also believe there is a stigmatism that comes with Hispanic students/people. They are looked at as slow learners, as Lianna said here to steal our jobs, low-income, and sometimes good for nothing people. I do not like the fact that some are illegal aliens and i agree that they should be sent back. But i also agree with mandi that in your class they are your responsibility. Some Hispanics actually value education more than White or Black Americans. Their parents want to help teachers and are there to talk when you need them. (Now this isnt all the time and i guess it depends on where you are from) but i am like Lianna, forget the stereotype and just treat them like regular people.

Author:  Clay Moore [ Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:27 pm ]
Post subject: 

I didn't want to just not post back on your comment Dr. Turner. I am aware of the process. I have actually looked into it several times within the past few years because of conversations like this. It is a very extensive process I know. Including the "lawful permanent residence" status that an immigrant has to obtain the total process of becoming naturalized takes roughly 5-7 years. This includes doing things like filing applications, learning english, taking basic history tests dealing with civics, and other requirements necessary to become a US citizen.
I know throughout history several events have taken place and several treaties have been signed with some giving up land and others gaining land. I am just speaking from a modern day point of view I guess. With the way our nation is spending and the economy in the shape that it is... this just seems like another addition to the higher costs of living we face each year.

Author:  Maria Parker [ Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:23 pm ]
Post subject: 

I can understand people wanting to come into this country to better themselves, their living conditions, their education, and opportunities for their children. I can see someone being very desperate to get out of a terrible situation and coming to our country without the right paperwork. I do however, feel that there should be boundaries and that if there are people in this country that haven't gone through the necessary means to be here legally, then something should be done. In the same breath I am going to say that sometimes there is suffering beyond measure other places in this world, and it would be hard for me to see someone escaping to our country, only to be thrown back to the sharks.

Author:  Paige Colbath [ Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:52 pm ]
Post subject: 

I feel for a lot of Hispanics. My mom was an ESL teacher for the last 4 years, and she came home telling lots of stories about her students. Most of them were illegal, and obviously couldn't speak English at all. They told my mom some horrendous stories about how they came over the boarder. It makes you realize how bad it really must be over there. So I do understand people wanting to come here and try and make a better life. However, I don't support people coming over here illegally. I think that it shows in part how hard it is to become a citizen in this country though. If our immigration laws were a little more lenient, then maybe so many Hispanics wouldn't have to come here illegally. I am not at all for deporting anyone back to Mexico, but I do think that all illegal Hispanics should have to become citizens (for Social Security and tax purposes). I think that they should be given the equal opportunities that all American citizens have, just in the right way.

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