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sandra peterson
Newbie
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:10 pm Posts: 13
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In reading Hard Times, I couldn't help but to compare the book to Kozol's, The Shame of the Nation. Once again we observe the disparity between the rich and poor. Because the poor lacked education and job skills, they had few options for improving their terrible living and working conditions. Dickens uses this book to expose the massive gulf between the haves and the have-nots in the nineteenth-century much the same way Kozol exposes it in the 21st century.
_________________ Sandra Peterson
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Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:47 pm |
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dustin farmer
Newbie
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:58 pm Posts: 13
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What I find most intriguing about Hard Times is Dickens creativity in the names of his characters. The one that stuck out to me most was Mr. McChoakumchild. It was not only the name, but also the type of character that he represents that caught my attention. To he and Thomas Gradgrind, it is all about the facts. They must stifle the creativity and stick to the facts. Facts are what gets you where you want to be in life. What is so funny about this, is that this novel is over 150 years old and our leaders ideas of public education has not changed. We must take away our teachers and students creativity and teach to the test, because facts are what is important, and facts are what you need to reach your full potential. It is amazing to me the insight that Dickens had about the present and ultimately, the future.
_________________ Dustin H. Farmer
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Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:50 pm |
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Jennifer Blankenship
Newbie
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:01 pm Posts: 9
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Are times not supposed to change? It is amazing to me that Dickens wrote about the very same reality we have today. As I was reading Hard Times I kept getting caught up in Mr. Gradgrind’s “nothing but the factsâ€
_________________ Jennifer Blankenship
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Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:42 pm |
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Michael Robbins
Newbie
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:51 am Posts: 13
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Dustin has nailed the FACTS! I, too, found the characters names very interesting. Even before beginning the first chapter, the list and description of characters caught my attention. I was immediately reminded of the video, People Like Us, that we watched during our last class. The characters were described by looks, jobs, mentality, and age. Was Dickens perhaps creating some sort of bias that would affect the perception and meaning that different readers would gain from reading this work? [/b]
_________________Michael A. Robbins
robbinsma@appstate.edu
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Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:36 am |
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gayle
Site Admin
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 4:05 am Posts: 404 Location: Appalachian State University
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Hi folks,
I wanted to share a quote from an essay by Dorothy Allison with you (author of "Bastard Out of Carolina.") This quote combines in one powerful experience of poverty a lot of issues we've been discussing.
Quote: The first time I heard, "They're different than us, don't value human life the way we do," I was in high school in Central Florida. The man speaking was an army recruiter talking to a bunch of boys, telling them what the army was really like, what they could expect overseas. A cold angry feeling swept over me. I had heard the word they pronounced in that same callous tone before. They, those people over there, those people who are not us, they die so easily, kill each other so casually. They are different. We, I thought. Me.
When I was six or eight back in Greenville, South Carolina, I had heard that same matter-of-fact tone of dismissal applied to me. "Don't you play with her. I don't want you talking to them." Me and my family, we had always been they. 'Who am I? I wondered, listening to that recruiter. 'Who are my people? We die so easily, disappear so completely—we/they, the poor and the queer. I pressed my bony white trash fists to my stubborn lesbian mouth. The rage was a good feeling, stronger and purer than the shame that followed it, the fear and the sudden urge to run and hide, to deny, to pretend I did not know who I was and what the world would do to me.
My people were not remarkable. We were ordinary, but even so we were mythical. We were the they everyone talks about—the un-grateful poor.
The full essay:
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/skinall.html
_________________ Gayle Turner
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Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:44 pm |
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pamelabare
Newbie
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:17 am Posts: 14
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Wow. You folks are so smart. I realize that our job is to apply the injustice and prejudism in Hard Times to our future roles as adminstrators, but I am caught up in the story line. Without reading your comments, I might have forgotten this was about the MSA program.
Anyhooo....
After reading the quote that Dr. Turner added, I was reminded of a couple of bellringers that I read from my own students. Both went with the story of "The Most Dangerous Game." One student responded of how she would like to have the rich to exchange places with the poor so that the poor could see what it was like to have everything and the rich would see what it was like to have nothing. Another student commented on how she would slit the world into whites and hispanics. Her reasoning was because she was tired of hispanics taking jobs from whites and not paying taxes. These journal entries reminded me that I am merely teaching facts for a test. I am in my 5th year of teaching and have never taken my students on a field trip. I am not teaching what will create innovative and creative students that will benefit our society as a whole. As Jennifer said, we are mandated to teach basic skills. I am Ms. McChoakumchild. Aghh...
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Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:08 pm |
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Callie Grubb
Semi-pro
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:47 pm Posts: 15
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I just finished Hard Times and really enjoyed the book. Mr. Gradgrind realized that social class and higher education didn't really matter. Facts didn't matter. In the end, his children's happiness and overall well-being was most important. He helped Louisa leave an unhappy marriage and helped Tom escape robbery charges.
Just goes to show you that you can have all the money and education in the world...but at the end of the day, are you happy?
_________________ Callie Grubb
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Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:34 am |
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Holly McClure
Newbie
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:28 pm Posts: 8
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I found it very interesting the revelation that Mr. Gradgrind had near the end of the book. He had changed and realized the error of his ways and he made a comment that his political associates would no longer accept him. I think that would still be the case today. Sometime I think that our political system is no longer in touch with the real life of most Americans.
I also found this quote of Bitzer’s to be very interesting “I am sure you know that the whole social system is a question of self-interestâ€
_________________ Holly McClure
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Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:04 pm |
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Travis Richardson
Newbie
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:16 pm Posts: 11
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I think what Holly said is so true. We all know people whose main goal in life is to keep up apperances. They want people to see them in a certain light. But you always hear stories about when these people have something happen in their life that reallly makes them stop and think they realize just how wrong they have been and how they have wasted their whole lives chasing after things that truly didn't matter. The change that came about in Gradgrind made me think of another classic Dickens character Ebenezer Scrooge.
_________________ Travis Richardson
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Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:46 pm |
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pamelabare
Newbie
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:17 am Posts: 14
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I couldn't help but think of the trailer lady and son in comparison to Bounderby and Mrs. Pegler. Also, I think is was interesting how Mr. Grandgrind's perspective about the poor changed once his son was helped by the circus people. Overall, I can see how these big issues of how to fix social class separation are minimal compared to fixing our society's character as a people. Our character should consist of just values and friendship. This would be more helpful than distributing "things" or "money" equally. I am not sure if that made sense to anyone except me. Let me know. See you all tonight. Happy Birthday to Deby!!!!!
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Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:14 am |
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